Maurice Collins: 90 Years Young: Lessons from a Silent Generation Trailblazer

Automatically transcribed, so there may be the odd slip.

Alastair GreenerHello and welcome to the Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking Podcast, where we look at bridging the generation gap by debunking myths, tackling stereotypes, and sharing practical tips on how we can build stronger intergenerational connections. And today I'm joined by a silent gen. I'll let you know in a moment how silent gen he is, but you'll work it out because he was born in Hackney in London in 1934. Four. He's led an extraordinary life as a property developer, celebrated collector and social care advocate, apprenticed in letterpress and shaped by servicing the RAF and also on a note Israeli kibbutz. His unique collection, philanthropic endeavors and dedication to disability rights actively influence countless lives. So a very warm welcome to Morris Collins. Good morning.

Maurice CollinsThank you very much and good morning to you.

Alastair GreenerThe first thing I'd like to ask you, Maurice, is, is about your generation. You are, you know, you're very open and proud of the fact that you are 90 years old about six months ago. And I would say you are fairly untypical of someone of your generation, which is silent generation. Um, how would you see yourself?

Maurice CollinsWell, I, I, I don't think that I'm, I'm, um, typical in a sense. I, I, I guess. Everything is different. I mean, people develop in different ways and I have plenty of friends who are my age who are just as active, uh, as I am. And there are others, sadly, who might be quite unwell and many, even more, so many of them have gone. So it is a bit, uh, sad. So it's very difficult to say. I'm typical of it. I'd like to think I was. Uh, above average, let's put it that way.

Alastair GreenerAnd what do you think makes you different? You know, the fact that you're still running a business, um, you are still collecting, you're an avid collector, an award-winning collector. What is it about the way that you are that makes you like you are, if that makes sense? You know, what, what do you attribute it to?

Maurice CollinsI somehow have that ability to cross over. From different parts of my life and utilize what I've learned in one, to develop into another. So for example, you know, I, I had, I had a, I, I think of the things that have really affected my life mainly, and, and having a severely learning disabled daughter probably may had a bigger impact than anything else. But, and all, everything I seems seemed to have done over life seemed to have, have been affected by one thing. For example, I started off, you didn't mention in your introduction that I started off as an apprentice compositor. Um, my, my mother, who's a very working class lady, in fact, I come from a very working class background in Hackney. Uh, one thing she knew that printing was invented 500 years ago and it was still operating. And she said to me. You, um, if you become a printer, you'll always have a job. Little did she know, certainly in letterpress and uh, and sort of that, the, her simple words in those days, because she had that little bit of knowledge about how printing started. Started me off as an apprentice compositor, and I moved on from there into other businesses. And each time I went to a different businesses, it, it impacted. The other businesses. And my daughter Kim, when she was born, totally impacted my life and moved me in a totally different direction. Um, so on one hand have been a parent of so many severely learning disabled is a very, very difficult situation. But happily, my wife and I, we managed to overcome it and became. Much more positive by her experience, even to the degree that my great grandson was a result of the fact I set up an organization where my son married another volunteer working in one of our projects. So it's amazing how things happen like that.

Alastair GreenerWhat a lovely way for that to go full circle in a sense. I, I wanna go back to your upbringing, if I may, because I'm, I'm a, a big advocate of your upbringing really shaping who you become. And of course you were born, um, pre-war, um, but you, your, your childhood would've been very much during the war, so that would be very fresh in, in your memory, living in, in London. How do you think that shaped you and your generation?

Maurice CollinsUh, once again, it's very difficult to tell because you're quite right at the age of five, I, I was, uh, evacuated to Norfolk, away from my parents. I didn't, I saw my mother approximately once a year, and my father, I didn't see throughout the war except once when I was taken into a, taken in back into London. So I lived on a big farm in, in Norfolk. Um, I can't say I, I had a happy, uh, life there out in a rural setting. Uh, I, I learned very quickly, um, with, with the people that I live with. I was with a, a French lady who, uh, who looks after me tremendously well and also, uh, educated me to some degree at home. Um, so I was very, um. The evacuation, I suppose, influenced me in one way, but it did take me away from my family and my parents for five years. The impact of that, I'm a little bit unclear about what in fact that did to me, but certainly when I came back to London, I was much. I was quite unhappy living in a tenement building in the middle of Hackney with my parents not knowing my father too well, and not having any network of friends or anything else that I had been brought up with. So I guess there was a negative impact after the war coming back to a situation which wasn't that easy, um, at the time. Uh, but. I went to a grammar school. Uh, I was a total idiot. I'm ashamed to this day of how stupid I was and was thrown out actually before I was 15, uh, from a grammar school in London. Um, and that's where I guess life really began, uh, when I left school without any, um, real educational background. Although I have to say that I did have an entrepreneurial streak and with a mate of mine. Uh, who has Alzheimer's at the moment? Sadly, a mate of mine and I, we would go round where they would play the WIS drives of the period, which was very popular in 1947 ish. Uh, and we would buy up the cards that they had played with. 'cause they only played one game with one pack. We bought them for six months and sold them for a shilling on the walls of the animal market in Brick Lane. So.

Alastair GreenerWhere do you think that entrepreneurial spirit came from? Because you know that that's quite a unique talent to have.

Maurice CollinsUh, I, well, don't think it was a talent. I mean, I mean, I, I don't know actually. I mean, I just, both of us, we, we both needed pocket money. I mean, in fact, uh, with this particular friend, his name by the way is Bernie Winehouse and is in fact related to the famous singer, but I think he was a great uncle or something. Um, to, to the singer, Amy. Um, I dunno. I, I think we needed the money. Um, we, we had a, a few ideas of, of actually buying and selling stuff and it just happened to work quite well and we earned our few, few shillings. We had to, it cost us a penny to have a little boy watching out for the, the school inspector who would come down brick lane and throw us off the wall when he saw us. But we had, we paid a guy, a penny to, to stand on either, either side to make sure we weren't caught.

Alastair GreenerI, I have to say I know Brick Lane. Well, I remember back in the, uh, not a little bit more recently, but in the early late eighties, uh, getting the best bagels in, in London.

Maurice CollinsThat's it. Well, I mean the, the animal market's no longer there, sadly. Uh, I say sadly, I, I, uh, animal rights people closed it down in the end, but, uh, it was a very good experience. And to this day, when people ask my advice about, uh, how one would go into a business, take a market store. Take a market store, and you will learn everything you'll ever need to know about an interaction with the public.

Alastair GreenerI think that's great advice. And let, let's talk about your early career because you clearly changed your, your outlook. You changed your approach from being, as you said, an idiot at grammar school to becoming quite an entrepreneur and, and those early days, you know, tell us a little bit about that and, and you know, how you, you basically changed your outlook and your approach to work.

Maurice CollinsUm, well, as an apprentice, I, I was a, a, um, I worked for a very s uh, a very small firm. Um, in fact, I was the only employee, so I was an apprentice. And the guy two were actually, were two people originally dimont from the Army and they set up a small printing works. And I loved the trade. I loved what I was doing. I learned a great. Deal. Uh, just from the practicality of being able to produce something that was sold for a profit and I got paid as, uh, somebody who was the employee. And within a year of doing that, I did become more or less the boss, although it was only, there was only two of us in the end, I more or less became the boss of the company, uh, relishing what I was doing and also developing. One of the things was how did we get business? And I used to dress in a white coat and I used to walk down the local areas knocking on the door and say, I'm the local printer and we haven't got much work. If you want to jump down cheaply and quickly, I'm here. And that's more or less how I got into the business perception, uh, the business, um, of selling, um, in a wider context than selling wish drive packs of cards on the streets of brick lane. Now I think I've got said, made that quite confusing in a way. But still, uh, I hope that in some way else what you asked, I.

Alastair GreenerYeah, I, I, I think it, it, it's really interesting 'cause in all of my intergenerational work, I talk a lot about us being framed by a generation rather than being defined by it. But also the immediate influences that we have in our life as we grow up, and then our early experiences. And obviously that environment in which you grew up in, in the, of, you know. In going into business in the, in the late forties, early fifties, was a very different world to the one we live in now. How do you think you would cope in today's world? What do you think, if you were leaving school right now, what do you think you would be doing?

Maurice CollinsUm, I'd probably be down brick lane sending cars from Bridge instead of West. No, no. I, it's, it's very interesting. My, um, my partner, I was at a, uh, a part of my partner who has 10 grandchildren. Uh, all of them in, uh, between 15 and 19. Um, and I was sitting with one of them and I said, what are you doing? He said, well, he said, I, I'm earning a few Bob on the side. People come to have their hair cut with me from school, from the local school. I, I'm at the school and I become the barber of all the boys, including he said, footballers who travel a long way to, to see me and. I was chatting with him and as time went on, I was giving him different ideas on how to. In fact, increase his sales, what would happen, how he would develop, what, what the future holds for him, even if he was only a barber, but wanted to grow big. And at the end of the day, uh, at the end of the evening, um, one of, uh, one, one of the parents said to, to all the kids, well. What are the people that have influenced you most? And this kid got up and said, I've got more from this afternoon with this bloke than I have with all the teachers of what they've been giving me, which was a really moving thing for me. So I felt that even at my age, I had the ability to influence a 16-year-old in what he was doing.

Alastair GreenerAnd I love that because that, that does go against what people might think. And you know, we, we see it all the time in my local, uh, village where the young, the very young and the very old get together and share stories and have a, a, an absolutely magical time, um, together. And it's, it's somehow, it's when it's not the parents or the. Boss telling you what to do somehow there seems to be a level of acceptance that you don't get, um, if, if it's an immediate parent.

Maurice CollinsYeah, yeah. No, no. I mean, it's, funnily enough, the, the same thing happened with my partner and with another one of her grandchildren because she could speak French. He was having his, uh, French, um, exams and she just spends time with him and. She, he, he, so far he's done so well, unbelievably well because of these one and a half hour sessions once a week that she has with his grandmother. So, I mean, I, you know, it's not just generations. I mean, I people basically, we are no different than I were, than my parents were. In a way. They had the same needs and the same aspirations that I, I have had. Um, so I don't think there's, you know, I, I think maybe. One's making a bit too much about the generations. You know, I, I, we don't, we ain't that much different.

Alastair GreenerWell, that's really refreshing to hear, but what about when you started out in business, when you started having employees who were then younger than you? Um, so that would've been, you know, you as silent Jen and then you would've had obviously, uh, baby boomers coming in, these young whipper snappers, uh, coming in at the time. How, how was that relationship for you, um, in those days?

Maurice CollinsUh, well, if I could just go back previous, slightly, previous to when I started my own business, uh, and this impacted massively on, on, on how life developed is, um, that I, at when I was 15, being that idiot that left that school, the school by the name was Palmers, which still exists leaving that school is that I got involved politically, uh, as a very left wing agitator. Right, so I became the Labor League of Youth, the Young Communist Party. I began all of a sudden and an ultra left Zionist movement, and that had probably the biggest impact on my life at the period as it, it ran alongside the fact that I was also developing a business, but it also gave me an ideology and a framework in which to operate to this day. The impact of that still remains. And all the friends I had in those days are still my friends. So that political, uh, involvement did change the way I thought and also made me try to learn, you know, to, to actually become a, to become much more aware of life in general. I, I always, I always quote this thing, if I may, this story is that I, 20 years ago I was given a lecture in. Uh, Tottenham at the museum. There's a museum in Tottenham, quite a, quite a nice one actually. And a lady comes through the door and I said to you, your name is Maori, isn't it? And she said, yes. I said, and I met you 60 years ago that more than 60 years ago at a communist party dance in the Horwich Town Hall. She said, I, well, I don't remember. I said, well, I said, not only that, I said, we had a dance and I, and. I was very impressed by your knowledge and I said, could I take you home? And you said, uh, very reluctantly, yes, yes, you can take me home. And we got the 6 4 3 bus down stones I road, she lived above her shop. I stood at the door and I said, well, lovely meeting you. I said, you know, can I, can I take her out again? She said, no. Oh. I said, uh, can I kiss you goodnight? And she more or less told me to hop off. Right now. And I said, I've never forgotten your face. Anyway, we had a laugh. We went into thing. I started my lecture with that story that I've just told you all through the talk I picked on her, right? Which is all about my gadgets. And at the end of it, she gets out, uh, and she may ask a question. I said, yes. She said, tell me. She said, what do you do with all the rubbish you collect? I said, well, I. I, I store 'em at home and she turned to the audience and said, I had a lucky bloody escape, didn't I?

Alastair GreenerUm, let's come to the, you know, you, you talked about technology and technology changing. How are you as a 90-year-old with, with technology?

Maurice CollinsWell, I've actually, um, I've actually produced 10 books. And I've done it all on the computer. I've put it together on the computer, I've designed it, laid it out, put it together on the computer, all within Microsoft Publisher. Now if you move into somewhere else, I'm lost. But I've learn how to use publisher and I managed to put together, I dunno, maybe 5,000 pages of, of text and pictures. So I can't say I'm a total. Dance for it. Uh, in that sense, I believe that I've managed to deal with the ability to carry on what I learned as a printer and put it into the context of a computer AI I haven't used yet. Um,

Alastair Greenerdo you enjoy technology or is it more of an, uh, a means to an end?

Maurice CollinsOh, I can't keep away from it. You know, it's sort of, you know, the, the, the computer's inside and if, if of an evening even within a really fascinating TV play, you know, I, I know that I've got to do something. I mean, I, because I'm involved in so many different things a lot at the moment with disability, then I'm always, you know, maybe get a hundred emails a day, um, in different areas of my life. Juggling them is quite difficult. Of course, I.

Alastair GreenerNow that's a, a really interesting topic 'cause you, you were talking very frankly, um, about your daughter's disabilities and one of the things that we've seen over time is the way that disability is recognized and how. Different. It is from when you were growing up and there might have been, you know, uh, people that you knew growing up who were disabled, but the way that the world that they came into versus the world that, uh, your daughter came into, and for that matter, youngsters today come into, what evolution have you seen in, in that respect?

Maurice CollinsGot, got worse, not better. Um, I mean, I, I'm in, I'm in the, uh, area of severe learning disability. Um, at the moment I'm involved with the ginormous campaign to change the way the Care Quality Commissions, views, village communities. Um, I mean, that campaign, uh, is occupying quite a bit of my time. In fact, in the last month I've had a, a launch at the House of Commons. We've had a massive conference and all we're trying to do is to change one sentence. In the guidelines of the CQC as it relates to residential care for people with learning disabilities and the prob and the issue going back when my daughter was young. Life, although the law has improved in recognition of disability, the situation as a family has not changed the same problems and concerns were there. One of which, for example, is what happens when we pop off without severely learning disabled daughter? Does it fall upon the siblings? And, uh, to that end, I've started two different organizations that relate to what we call advocacy within, um, within learning disability. One within a charity, one private, and I used it. My daughter passed away a few years ago, but it was my life's, my wife and I, uh, lifesaver. By the organizations that, uh, she, I and one or two other families set up. And maybe I, I think over the years I've set up five or six different charities and, uh, organizations as it relates to dis learning disability.

Alastair GreenerDo you see different generations view disability differently? So if you look at your generation and boomers versus the very young, do you think that as we've progressed or as we as, as the ear, the years have gone on, do you think that different generations view it differently?

Maurice CollinsI, I'm sure they do. I mean, there's much more awareness nowadays, uh, about disability. And of course, uh, for example, with the development, the negative development of autism, uh, which is now seems to be very prevalent. And, and we are unsure quite what that relates to. But autism, um. Uh, one of my big bug bears at the moment, for example, is you have a spectrum in autism and people who are doctors say they're autistic. And I know autistic people who are really autistic, who just can't make it in life in any way whatsoever. And that spectrum, because of that spectrum, I think it's caused immense problems for those at the severe autistic end, uh, of the situation in a funny sort of way, things. Are better in one way and worse in another in in the days gone. First of all, because a lot of people are growing older. A lot of people with learning disabilities are growing much older. Even with people with downs are living mainly a full life. The need is much greater and the money just ain't there to deal with that need so. It's on the whole, when I think back to what I used to do years ago or when, when I produced a book, I, I brought a book I, in 1976, I wrote a book called K and Kids, um, with my wife, which told us, told about how we all started. And I was glancing before this interview, I was glancing through it and I realized that exactly the same issues that I had 50 years ago is now facing families today.

Alastair GreenerYeah, it's, it, I mean, that, that's, that's very sad to hear. I, I think the one thing I'm encouraged by is certainly when I go into schools and when I'm, um, looking in my local community and so on, is the acceptance of difference seems to be so much better today. Whereas, uh, you know, in years gone by, people who were different were either ignored or maybe, you know, sometimes, you know. Put in, in homes and, and different things where today that level of acceptance is, is actually really positive. Um, but I, I fully accept what you're saying. That's that. Um, other aspects aren't quite so good. But I want to move on to the technology because it's quite interesting. We're talking earlier on about you and technology and the fact that you love it, and of course, that is the subject of your award-winning collection. And I just wanna finish the, our last bit of the interview, really talking about your collections, because do you think having a collection and continuing to collect, does that, does that keep you young? Does it keep that enthusiasm, that excitement going?

Maurice CollinsIt does. I mean, you know, sort of, uh, I mean, buying the stuff, I, I mean now I've seemed to. Uh, it's sort of merged. Uh, the collecting has merged into the production of the books. So all the books I've done is based upon the collection I have, and I can't stop collecting even though the books are done. So, you know, my, my partner sort of constantly comments on the fact that I'm off to an antique fair. I'm doing less of the collecting now that I've finished the books, funnily enough. Um, and also, uh. Uh, my time has moved into other areas, which is, which are more productive in the field of disability and to some degree, uh, I, I started, um, which many years ago, I started a group called Prime Thinkers, which is a group of people in their sixties and seventies who, um, who passed on ideas of their knowledge onto new businesses. And interestingly enough, I ran it for about 20 years. I stopped it after about 20 years, and 10 years have passed. And I've restarted it, um, prime Thinkers, but it in an older group in a funny sort of way. And we are passing on ideas to new businesses. We've only been going, we've only had a couple of meetings now, but we are passing on ideas, which were ideas that we had from the past that relates to what goes on today

Alastair Greenerand how's that been received by these younger whipper snapper people.

Maurice CollinsWell, I mean, so far with great enthusiasm because, uh, uh, I, I'll give you the instance. I mean, the last one we did was a cartoonist of an ENT cartoonist I hate, who's quite famous. He's done the, the national press. The press is dying away. His business is dying, and he wants new ideas on how to use his, uh, abilities to make a living. And we came up with 42 in one hour. Wow. So idea generation is something that's always fascinated me and things like prime thinkers. I mean, when I, when I was running my businesses, I, just to give you some, I, I don't think we've discussed my sort of business life, but I'm, I evolved, I started my own printing company. I specialized in the manufacture of cartoon of cartons. You know what I mean by carton? Small boxes. Yeah,

Alastair Greeneryeah, yeah.

Maurice CollinsA small run printer that does small boxes. That's what I was focusing on. I advertised in the Sunday Times Business to business page, and I got a certain amount of work at the same time. I was producing box games for the swag trade. Do you know what the Swac trade is?

Alastair GreenerYep. Yep. The, uh, the fashion industry. The what? Oh, swag trade. Sorry, I thought you said the rag trade. I beg your pardon? The swag trade.

Maurice CollinsWhat's the swag trade? The swag trade is the bingo trade and the market trade. So for example, if you were manufacturing something for the normal market, let's say Tesco sells it, they were in those days, and I'm going back to the seventies, in those days, they would never buy my product. The people that bought my product were wholesalers. Wholesalers and, uh, bingo halls who wants stuff that would not be the same that you would buy in a shop. So that's called the swag trade?

Alastair GreenerYeah. Right. Okay. So

Maurice CollinsI produced 20 different games in the swag trade that was sold. Usually when you walk down a market, somebody say, who would like to have a a, a dressing dolly set? And I'll give you a compendium of game all for one pound. So three for a pound, that's what I produced. That's what I manufactured. So I was doing cottons at the same time. I exhibited what I manufactured in games at the Harrogate Toy Fair, and I was thinking, and then I went away on holiday with my kids and I was sitting on the beach and I thought to myself, isn't it interesting? I'm doing well with that page full of advertising of different people. Why don't they turn that page into an exhibition like I'm at the Harrogate Toy Fair. So I came back to London and I phoned up the Sunday Times, and to my astonishment, I got through to the marketing director of that page and he said to me. Well, you've got an idea. Come and see me. And he took the first, my first lunch I was ever, ever taken to a business lunch. He took me to this business lunch, two hour lunch, pitched him my idea. He said, put it in writing. Put it in writing. And one of the things, I just have to say what he, in the discussion, he then said to me, what do you want from me if I badge your exhibition? The Sunday Times Business to Business exhibition. So I thought for a minute and I said, I need an advert every week, either to sell space or to bring people to the exhibition. He said, uh, yeah, I think we could do that. Uh, he said, is that it? I said, uh, and, and I thought, quickly, 20,000 pound. And he said, oh, he said, that sounds reasonable. I started a totally new business. Uh, which was the biggest success of my life. I was employing 50 salespeople by the time I was finished with, um, with running 28 exhibitions in the UK and Europe, um, which was quite an amazing development. Yeah, just, and

Alastair Greenerhow did you, how did you get on with, with them? I mean, that's remarkable. 50 salespeople, they must have been from all different generations. And this is me sort of, uh, clumsily bringing us back to the generational conversation, but was the, was there any friction between, um, the different generations that you saw in the workplace at that time?

Maurice CollinsNo. In fact, if anything, some of the older staff. Uh, one instance, I had one chappy there who was in his sixties, who was a bit of a drinker, and I, I didn't know they, the youngest staff covered it up and supported him, so he had carried on with his job. Otherwise, he would've been out the door. But in fact, I found many years later, and by the way, as a matter of interest, I sold that company back in the nineties and I still have some of those staff who contact me very often.

Alastair GreenerWow. That's amazing. And actually, very quickly, let's talk about your, your business now, because you're still a, a commercial property owner. Yes. How involved in the business are you at 90 years old?

Maurice CollinsUm, well, I'm, uh, my son runs, I, I, I have a sort of a different range of portfolios, but I have one, uh, one somebody who was a, you talk about generations, the guy that was apprentice to me. When I was a printer is now my partner in some of my properties and my son deals with all the properties that I'm, uh, involved with him. But one property, which is called the London Fashion Center in Finsbury Park, if you know London, I dunno if you know Finsbury Park, it's that one property. Um. Yeah, because the people in the fashion industry are so difficult. My son doesn't want anything to do with it. So myself and my, my sort of very close friend who was my apprentice, his name is Ellis, he's in the music business. We run that property together. So that is the one area that I am totally involved in from a business point of view. Other than that, my son. Runs everything else, but that is quite a big hassle. We've got, we've, one of our problems is footfall, which applies across to anybody in the retail business. And we know what the retail situation is at the moment, but it's a mile where we have ground floor. We have eight small businesses and offices of other businesses in the building, and that's my involvement at the, at the moment in that one area. My son deals with. The rest, I'm happy to say.

Alastair GreenerAnd, and finally, just to, to wrap up here, I, I just want to talk a little bit about your collections. Your, your collections are such a big part of your life. You've written books, you've, uh, displayed, you've been on tv. You are an award winner, um, with your collections. And, and it's interesting that they're all about technology, which is very generational.

Maurice CollinsHang on a minute. They're not all about, uh, a technology. I mean, they are. I, well, I, I guess you, you are right in a sense that the collection is sort of artifacts that have made life easier. You are quite right actually. It, you, it, it's it. As I think about it, everything I've got in the collection, the same need still applies today. But it's being done in a different technological form, and it is that early part of the development of technology that interests me. So I collect between 1851 and 1951, a hundred years of, um, of the anything by, it's like a gadget collection and also it has some, uh, how it looks as well is also of interest to me. So, I mean, I, if I have beside me, I'll show you one of the pieces I'm most proud of. 'cause it's so rare, which is, um. I don't, I I, I know that this will be, I can only describe it to, it's a clockwork tea made. So what happens is you wind it up, you set the time at b at breakfast time, the bell rings. Automatically one lever clicks another lever, which causes a match to strike across a piece of piece of Emery cloth, which lights an oil burner, which boils the water, and when bolt, it tilts and goes into your teapot. So it's.

Alastair GreenerI saw the video of this actually working. It was an extraordinary thing to, to see and to see you explain. And it's just wonderful how technology evolves. And as new ideas come along, they're able to introduce 'em. 'cause I remember my, my grandmother loving her tea made, but this was, this was in the sixties, which was, um, obviously very high tech in comparison to striking an Emory paper with a match.

Maurice CollinsBut the big thing is the clockwork. If you think about it, how do you store energy? I mean, batteries are the one way of storing energy. How else can you store energy? You store energy in the early days by clocks. You would wind it up at that energy in that wind up. I mean, I, I, I have to say that my grandson, uh, who is 30 now, um, who is brilliant. Right. Got a first at Cambridge, as did my, my granddaughter. They both got first at Cambridge. Uh, but, uh, he said to me when he was seven, I was explaining to him, I, uh, that in fact winding up is, is putting your energy, uh, into the thing. And, and I said, it's when you wind it up, that's why you get the energy. And he turned to me, he said, grandpa, you are wrong. I said, what do you mean I'm wrong? He said, it's not. The energy. It's where you get the energy from. It's the food that you eat that gives you the energy to wind it up. Crikey, I'm sorry. I left school when I was 15.

Alastair GreenerThat's absolutely wonderful and what a great way to finish Maurice. That's just great that what they call mutual mentoring these days. Um, but just great to see how we learn from each other across all generations. It's been an absolute joy chatting to you. And, um, good luck to you with all of your projects, all of your collections, and all of your work. And at 90 I think you're an inspiration to everybody. We're gonna put, um, a couple of clips in the show notes for people to watch, but, uh, Morris Collins, thank you so much for joining me. The Alastair Greener Generationally Speaking podcast was presented by me, Alastair Greener. It was recorded at Granary Studios and produced by James Jones. Please follow us and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. To find out more, visit generationally speaking.co.uk.